Youth Groups…. Destructive or Constructive?
I have a question, and I'd like your honest opinion and feedback. I'm hearing from more and more people that the only 'worldly' influence their children really encounter is from their super-cool-crazy-fun church youth programs. I've heard stories of kids being singled out and approached by eager youth group leaders telling them, “I know you can't really 'open up' to your parents, I'm hear to listen to whatever you can't share with them“. What do you think of that? Do you have a problem with that? Or do you appreciate that? I've heard statistics citing that a teen losing their *purity* is just as likely to happen (or more likely to happen!) in church youth groups than 'non church' groups of teens. What are your thoughts? Do you think this is true? Do your kids attend youth group? Why or Why Not? Is this paranoia…. are these stories over-rated or are we seriously in danger of corrupting our kids by handing a measure of our authority over to a fun, 24 year old youth pastor?
** note: I do not desire an inflamed battle-axe debate. Opinions tempered with grace. logic and clarity will be greatly appreciated. |
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July 3rd, 2005 - Posted in Uncategorized | | 0 Comments No Responses to ' Youth Groups…. Destructive or Constructive? 'Leave a reply |
on July 4th, 2005 at 12:12 am
Well….
As a former youth group leader, camp counselor and director I have to say they can be either. I think it's a matter of knowing your youth leader well. You most definitely do build intimate relationships with the kids and it's easy to step on parent's toes. (Something I was always careful not to do)
I am "older" and have children of my own so tend to be very aware of what I would/would not want someone discussing with my children. I think problems often arise because the youth leaders are young themselves and really can't put themselves in the shoes of a parent. They haven't been there yet and don't "get it".
I could say more, but how's that for a "starter" comment?
on July 4th, 2005 at 12:46 am
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OK, here's my two cents:
I would try to make a decision based on our actual youth group situation, not on what happened to someone else in some other place. My oldest children are in junior high; they do attend a youth group. I personally find it a blessing to have other adults involved in my children's lives; and I encourage them to talk with Christians who have different life experiences, perspectives, and even convictions. I trust the Lord to help us teach them to discern wisely, apply scripture and think critically as they encounter new people and experiences.
One thing I feel strongly about as a parent, is not making choices out of fear. God gives wisdom and direction to those who ask. There is no reason to live our lives fearing potential evil.
When a child falls away, or into sin, the problem is within the child's heart. It is easy to blame a youth pastor or "worldly friends" or the public school system or a myriad of issues, but the truth is, "each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust." (Js 1:14) We can try and create a pristine environment for our kids to grow up in, but we can never remove the reality of their fallen condition. If their hearts aren't transformed by Christ, they will turn away, youth group or no youth group.
🙂 That's probably enough for your comment section! Hope it makes sense.
on July 4th, 2005 at 2:03 am
Hi Jenefer!
A great question(s)… and my *long* comment is posted at my blog.;) And fwiw, I totally agree with both of the comments made already too. It's so great to glean such great insights from everyone here…thanks to all!
on July 4th, 2005 at 2:45 am
Great Question
After typing a big answer to your question, I decided I should put my response on my blog so as to not take up so much room on your page. So, my answer is there if you want to read it 🙂
Sheryl
on July 4th, 2005 at 6:28 am
This is a Pandora's Box.
I will respond on my blog and will be in tears as I write it.
on July 4th, 2005 at 7:16 am
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What thoughtful comments you have already received Jen…
I will post a little about this at my blog too.
No great thoughts, mind you :o)
But I'll join in the conversation, nonetheless.
Donna
on July 4th, 2005 at 9:14 am
Youth Groups
Jen, it occurs to me that there may not be an easy answer to this one, other than the fact that youth groups are what the pastors (and youth) involved make them and – as in everything else – we as parents have an obligation to be involved and aware to make certain our kids are attending the right kind of youth program.
My husband started in a youth program at his (later our) church at the age of twelve, with a youth pastor who was barely twenty-four. Given that he is now the senior pastor and still looks twenty-four, I have to take his age on faith, though I doubt he started leading the high school youth group at age two, as his appearance might suggest. The program was Bible-based and very strong in teaching actual Scripture as opposed to the "feel-good Bible" so prevalent in adult and youth programs alike.
I attended a youth program as a child which, while not likely to impact my purity or lack thereof, sadly neglected my spiritual upbringing in favor of teaching general lessons like "how to get along with other people" and "how to respect alternative points of view" – sadly, without the addition of a strong Scriptural foundation or the vital added clause "without losing your understanding that Jesus is LORD and His laws and ways must not be compromised." This had a serious negative impact on my ability to stand as a young Christian in a fallen world.
I have heard many stories of youth programs, positive and negative, and have come to the personal conclusion that like so many other things in this world, Youth Groups can run the spectrum from a wonderful time for young people to share fellowship and learn about the LORD to an opportunity for the enemy camp to lure young Christians away from the fold. I don't know that it is possible, or advisable, to tar them all with one brush or the other.
Fortunately you, I and (I hope) everyone else here is interested and concerned enough to be involved, which is the best way to discern whether or not a specific Youth Group – or Sunday School program – is good for your child. Talk with the youth pastor. Get to know him and his positions on scripture. Talk with other parents who have had their children in the program, particularly the ones whose children have graduated from the program relatively recently or parents whose children are currently attending. They will make great barometers, in part because you will be able to tell whether or not their spiritual anchors are placed in the LORD or in something else, an attitude their children are likely (though not required) to share. Most importantly, talk with your children and pay attention to their thoughts and comments. If they come home from youth group with a single comment about a child who isn't following the LORD you may be able to help them deal with the situation in a positive manner that ends up helping that friend or acquaintance learn to love the LORD. If they come home with consistent stories about an entire youth group filled with such children and a pastor who seems to be more interested in "juicy gossip" than sharing the word of the LORD, it might be better for the kids to attend somewhere else.
I say these things not because I think you don't know them – I'm sure just about everyone here already does – but because I can't resist a call for comments.
on July 4th, 2005 at 10:24 am
My thoughts….
have already been so well articulated in the comments here….
I may post something later on my blog!
Happy 4th!
And look at your pretty picture avatar!
on July 4th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
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Jen, Having grown up a MK (missionary kid) and being married to a guy who grew up a PK (pastor's kid), we are somewhat cynical when it comes to those in "full time service to God". That is to say, we think of them as ONLY men, and men with a sin nature just as us. Definitely, they should receive respect as men of authority, but God gave our children to US and not to them. When a pastor speaks, I never think of it as God speaking. I'd never let a pastor take my place, any more than I would any other man.
On the other subject, I'll just say that even on a Christian boarding school base in Papua New Guinea, there were kids drinking alcohol, smoking marijuana, and having sex. Just because the group of kids are supposed to be a good Christian group, that does not mean that they won't experiment with those things. What we needed, and what all teens need, was adult supervision, and lots of it!
on July 4th, 2005 at 10:11 pm
Lots of conflicts on this one
My youth group experience was not a good one. I don't want to give out too many details, but my youth pastor took advantage of me in ways he shouldn't have. A year or two later he divorced his wife and married one of my really good friends. So, I guess I am probably not a good one to ask about this. I'm probably way too biased and not very objective.
on July 5th, 2005 at 1:16 am
Accidentally posted in a different section…..
Jul. 4, 2005 – Youth groups
Posted by arobert6@juno.com (68.76.85.236)
The author of this letter is anonymous. It was published in a now defunct publication. I realize it's only one vantage point, but it's something to think about nonetheless. It's blunt, but truthful and sums up the downside to youth groups. I do find it curious that most Christians believe that without youth groups people won't come to the Lord. You are often asked from a sincere believer, "How will the kids come to know Christ if all the youth groups are gone?" The, obvious, response is that clearly people have been coming to the Lord for a couple of thousand of years without the heavy prevalence of youth groups we see today. I don't think God's arm is short, and I do believe He is still drawing people to Him with or without youth groups. The best youth groups are the service-oriented ones. Where they find widows who need home improvements and do whatever they can at no cost to her, or they do community work for free. God bless, Alice
Anonymous, CA
I think several generalizations can be made about youth pastors:
1) They are sincere. Most of them are planning to become senior pastors of their own congregations some day and many have gone to seminary. Trouble is, no church will hire a 25-year-old as their senior pastor, so they have to "settle" for the job of youth pastor.
2) They are young. They are not that far removed, agewise, for the teens they are trying to disciple. They lack the wisdom of older men, and believe me, working with teenagers requires wisdom!
3) They are honest-and here's where the trouble comes. They believe that unless a man works he shouldn't eat, so , to justify their meager salaries they plan one youth activity after another. Pizza parties, trips to amusement parks, rock concerts, ski trips, hikes, ice cream socials, after church socials, and camps, camps, camps. None of these activities are cheap, especially the summer camps, and they put the kids in the constant company of their peers and out of the more edifying company of their families. However, when the senior pastor takes a look at the full calendar of youth activities, he has to admit that the youth pastor is earning his keep! If the calendar were empty, and the youth pastor said, "Well, I thought I'd let the kids enjoy family life uninterrupted for a month or two," most of the parents would complain, "What are we paying this guy for?" and he'd be out of a job.
Another problem is the existence of so-called "Youth Ministries." A famous youth evangelist will plan to come to a large city, and all the youth pastors in the outlying areas receive flyers and other hype to get as many kids as possible from their church to attend. "It's gonna be the spiritual event of the decade, folks, and if your kids don't attend they'll probably wind up on drugs or something!" The most recent one of these extravaganzas was attended by my 16-yr.-old, and he reported that the "evangelist" spent 20 minutes telling booger jokes! Evidently, the time-honored preaching methods of Peter and Paul were ineffective: They should have told booger jokes! This rally also featured a lot of loud rock music, to which the kids swayed to and fro. That's the last time my kids go to one of those things. But a lot of kids went forward to get saved, they said.
AT our church it is traditional for the teenagers to sit in one long, giggly row in the back pew. They behave fairly well, passing an occasional note and drawing on the bulletin, but we make our kids sit with us. We are considered odd. We say "no" to a lot of the activities presented by the youth group, not because they are inherently evil, but because there are too many of them. This makes the church leadership inclined to think we are uncooperative. "See if you can get your parents to let you go to Youth Camp. If money is a problem, maybe we can work something out." This sets up many an argument between parent and child, let me tell you! Here in California it is currently
in vogue for the youth pastor to take his flock down to Mexico.
Most youth activities are entertainment-oriented, which reflects the current American culture's obsession with entertainment. Only occasionally will a youth activity be service-oriented, thus setting the future Christian adult up for a life of "What's in it for me?" Which is so prevalent in churches today. Forget denying yourself, taking up the cross, and following Jesus. Today it's more like, "Whoopee! Where's the party!"
on July 5th, 2005 at 1:34 am
These are important questions…
We have several children now of "youth program" age. Our church is blessed with an incredible youth pastor and great workers. However, we still are very watchful of the goings on with the youth. One thing that we have done is talk openly with our youth leaders about our convictions and beliefs regarding this age. They know what we agree with and do not agree with.. this makes it much easier if there is a questionable event. They actually go out of their way to let us know if there is something going to happen that we might not want our children involved in.
Our children are the most precious treasures that we have on this earth… we need to always be their protectors.. not leave it up to the Youth Pastor or Leaders. This is where it becomes important for us to let these people know what we expect and hope for in our children's lives. It will surprise you … how much the leaders will appreciate and respect what you have to say. We are finding in our church that our children are becoming leaders in the youth group even though they have the most limited privileges! Our desire is for God to shine through our "teens" and bring others closer to Him! So do not be afraid to allow your children to be involved.. at the same time keeping your family "rules" if this is how God leads in your family life.
God bless!
Denise W.
on July 5th, 2005 at 7:12 am
I answered on my blog
I put my answer on my blog today. Here's the link
http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/spunkyhomeschool/5407/
Spunky
on July 5th, 2005 at 7:40 am
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That's Ok. And my son does have a blog, his blog is T3, so maybe that's why you got it confused.
Yes my kids attend youth group.
on July 5th, 2005 at 8:35 am
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I am posting my response to your question on my blog as well – wow! what a great thought provoking question ~ but, we, especially as homeschooling families, need these type questions and scenarios to keep us on our toes. Thank you for generating brain cells this a.m!
hkj
on July 5th, 2005 at 3:01 pm
Youth Group
Wow — great question, great responses! I have a lot to add to the mix, so I will mull it over and possibly post on my blog as others have done already. However, I do have dissenting opinions from a few of the comments here. Basically, I am not overwhelmingly in favor of youth groups — too many bad experiences in the past. Like the fact that the "stalker" my daughter had at a Christian college was in the ministry program, training to be a youth pastor — and now IS — aside from the fact that he has a long history of sexual attacks at that school (all but my daughter's were ignored completely, and hers was not dealt with to our satisfaction). Therefore, I cannot say all youth pastors have good intentions.
Another youth pastor in another state excused all "hands on" contact by one of the boys, saying "he's just a touchy-feely kind of guy, like me." They were both wrong and inappropriate. I also cannot condone a single, mid-20's, youth "pastor" becoming engaged to one of the 16 year-old girls in his youth group, then daring to elevate her to co-leader status over much older kids in the group. As I said before, a lot to add to the mix. (I'm from Guilt-Free Homeschooling, so watch for my post/rant on this subject… I don't know whether to cool down first or start writing at this blood pressure.) 🙂
on July 6th, 2005 at 2:44 am
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Jen:
How timely your question/post is! Several friends have teens involved in very large, active, "hip" youth groups. Their daughters have all been inappropriately touched or had very crude/lewd things said to them by other teens (males) in the youth group. Honestly, these events have led our family to attend church services and keep socialization to a minimum unless it involves family type ministries (ones where we are with the children) and youth group participation is limited to the meetings where they are working on a specific ministry or project.
The churches I attended as a child and into my young adulthood were wonderful. I never encountered any type of inappropriate behavior nor heard my parents discuss any such happenings. However, within the last few years, my eyes were opened when a church member (a married man) starting winking at me every time we passed. That's when my "innocence" started to fade and my eyes started to open, especially with our young children involved in youth programs. I really hated to let go of my naivete about church, but I started thinking that if a married man had the nerve to do something so inappropriate to me (a married woman) right there during a service, my goodness(!), what could go on with unsuspecting and naive youth.
So, do we crawl into a protective shell? I don't know…makes our family want to.
Michelle
on July 6th, 2005 at 5:23 am
I finally had a chance to reply in my blog to this topic.
Thanks for asking the questions, Jen. It has been interesting to read what others have to say about this.
Tami
on July 6th, 2005 at 12:56 pm
Church Youth Groups
I am not sure if the stats are the same or worse or better but here is my 2 cents worth. I think it really depends on the youth group, the parents, the kids, what is being taught about purity and what God expects from His children. Our youth leaders are all adults (way over 25 years) some with teens of their own. Our teachings include God's plan for marriage and sex and that God desires us to wait and have a gift to give to our helpmeet. We dont recommend dating in the traditional sense. It is group hanging out with no real pairs. The design behind this that you will see what that person is truely like around their friends and others. Because we all know we are on our best behavior when we date. I also think it has a lot to do with what the parents have taught and what they expect from their kids. If the expectations and consequences are clear most kids will think before jumping in. It is when the expectations and consequences are not clear that we have great problems. And if the kids are not getting clear expectations from the parents then I hope that there is a youth pastor that will help them find the answers in the Bible to strengthen them when the issue of purity is brought up.
on July 6th, 2005 at 2:27 pm
sure…
Jen, our church is too small to have a "youth group," but we see and hear about it all the time at other area churches where we have friends. The kids are indistinguishable in funky hair, clothes (or lack thereof) and behavior from their secular counterparts. "Youth group" seems more like a rock concert. I'd hate to be a hypocrite — I was into Rez Band back in the day, and the geezers expected us to jam to George Beverly Shea and the Gaither Singers. But I don't see or hear about much fruit or light coming from most youth groups, and the pastors always excuse this with "at least they're at church."
Meanwhile, our sons are in a Christian Boy Scout Troop, and we've had great success (so far anyway). Scouting is a values and character based program, and many of the non-Christian scouts we know are still fine, clean-cut, polite young men. And the scout activities (such as Merit Badges) fit great with our homeschooling objectives. I'd encourage everyone to seek out or start a Christian-based Boy Scout troop. — jayfromcleveland@yahoo.com
on July 6th, 2005 at 4:37 pm
Which Master To Serve??
I haven't read anyone else's response and wanted to just write my take on all of this, if that is okay. Forst of all I believe that anytime a peer group has more influence on a child/youth, and does more mentoring than the parents that it can cause a breakdown in accountability. I have found this to be true with myself (while growing up) and now I see that happening with my niece (who's 17). My niece has more care and concern from her peer group than from her parents (sad but true), so she has been extremely vulnerable to whatever passing fad had come into the group (and yes, even church groups succomb to passing fads and secular materialism). She told me how her church friends were the first ones to talk with her about sex, and how to throw up after a meal to lose weight. Right there is a big red flag to me (imho). Anytime the parents leave the mentoring up to their child's peers, they are basically pillaging their child's spiritual inheritance. God set things up from the beginning for parents to be mentors to their children and to train their children. I understand there may be good influences in Youth Group just as much as bad influences and if a child knows they can come to Mom and Dad to talk about anything anytime, without judgement, then the child will naturally want to go to the parents. That Bible verse rings true in my mind Matthew 6:24 "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." Likewise, it is impossible for a youth to serve both his/her peers and parents, for either they will hate the one and love the other, or hold to one and despise the other. When a child begins to despise their parents they fall into dishonor, which steals their spiritual inheritance and long life that is promised.(Ephesians 6:3).
Blessings,
<>< Kelly
on July 6th, 2005 at 6:37 pm
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I have responded on my blog too. 🙂
on July 7th, 2005 at 10:56 pm
Church Youth Groups Friend or Foe??
Here are my two cents!
I also have seen youth groups that are either helpful or harmful. It depends on the leadership and the chaperones. If you think your church's youth group is helpful, I would suggest that you volunteer to be a helper. It is a good thing to assist in whatever way helps and it is a good thing to keep your eyes open. Either my husband or I would be at every meeting. (At this time my husband and I don't go to every meeting because my college graduate daughter is one of the leaders and I know she is rock solid and on the same wavelength. 🙂 This way we have some special time with our younger children.)
We do offer Christian hospitality and invite the youth to our home frequently. We make it a point to converse with them and encourage them. It is rough for the ones in public school–especially when I know they would like to be homeschooled but are in situations where it's not possible due to divorce or unsaved parents. It is important for us to mentor the Joshua generation.
If you think the youth group is harmful, keep your children at home. If the church leadership isn't happy about that, you can discuss it with them, but I think you will probably find that they don't really believe the same way you do or the youth group would be something you would want to participate in. In other words, you have to look at the fruit. How are the teens doing spiritually? How are they behaving in church and out of church? Usually the main problem with youth groups is the same as the problems in daycare and public school–parents think it is babysitting and there isn't enough supervision.
I would also put it off until they are in high school. The junior high (middle school) age is such a vulnerable time. Our world is pushing children to grow up too fast.
In case I am sounding too negetive, let me say that I have seen youth groups with good fruit! But just like anything else–be very sure before you trust other adults with your children. If you are not sure, be there until you know or don't let them go.
Blessings,
Harriet, Homeschool Mother of Many
on July 12th, 2005 at 9:07 pm
Thanks
Great topic and great comments. My son is only 4 and I have already learned to be a little wary of Sunday school. The kids often ask why my son is not in school and now he has learned what it means to "make fun of" someone. I do try to volunteer in there sometime (somewhat of a challenge with my little one) but from where I sit at this time, I feel that youth groups will be out but other teen groups, such as Scouts or homeschool groups, will be in for our family. If my area does not have any options, I will start something myself. This is not out of fear but based on research that clearly shows the negative influence of peers on teens. Also, I find that for many, abdicating parental responsibility is a slippery slope. It feels good to be off the hook for 1 evening a week and our flesh may start wanting more.
Just my perspective as a new homeschooler.
on July 18th, 2005 at 6:27 pm
Seems we are all discussing the same thing lately
We are having a little discussion about that as well. I posted today an allegorical story I wrote a few years ago about youth groups:
http://homeschoolblogger.com/Jul/
on July 30th, 2005 at 7:04 am
Youth Groups
I know that I am late on commenting about this, but I am new here and I just saw it. ;0) Two of our children do attend youth group, but the youth group is very small–a total of 5 and then for bigger events maybe 10 show up. Right now our Pastor and his wife are leading it and the kids have been greatly blessed. I see alot of fruits from this experience and therefore we will continue to encourage and help out when we can. On the other hand, I have heard about larger youth groups that are basically wordly teen hangouts with a few scriptures thrown in. If our church was like that, then I definatly would have the kids in youth group.
on March 3rd, 2007 at 3:12 am
And Just when U think your all Alone!!
The book, SPIRITUAL JUNKFOOD is an excellant resource for this topic of Youth Groups. Easy reading as well. Once I allowed myself the time to read this book (I've known about it for years, and had it on my shelf for months), I couldn't put it down. Finally there was confirmation of what I have been feeling for years.
At our church a corrupt curriculum was/is being used. I knew it was contrary to God's Word from the moment I had to teach from it several years ago, however, I did not have enough info to really make a case…just my convictions is all. So I did not say anything. However, I did inform the wife of the Man in charge of overseeing the Sun. School that at times, I would not be handing out the "handouts" for the children to take home because I thought it was inappropriate. A few times over the years the curriculum was discussed and my feelings about it were made known, yet, I really only had my decernments, which obviously did not hold water.
Well, last summer it all came to a head and I read the book Spiritual Junkfood and finally, finally it all made sence as to the direction of these groups. So much good info.
After much prayer, talking with hubby, etc, I wrote to my pastor and gave him my testimony and basically, respectfully, exposed satan's lies.
In the end we decided not to have our children go to Sunday school anymore, and we also decided to leave our church (which was an hour commute every Sunday). We are now looking for a church close to home and are having a very difficult time in doing so. We are a family that likes to stick together. Having a larger (by some standards) family, I would never have any peace all five of my children being taught by five different teachers who have their own personalities, convictions, beliefs, and pet peeves, etc. I cannot be in all of those classes at the same time and it would go against my whole reason of homeschooling.
In closing I would like to give a warning as well. Seven years ago I bought a KJV childrens study bible published by Zondervan. It was very colorful with nice charts and great illustrations with wonderful "facts". My son started reading the bible every day in 1st grade. The first year we read the New Testament together. The second year he read the New Testament on his own (6 pages a day mon-fri only). And then every year after that the bible through OT-NT every year. That is the first thing he does in the morning, he is now a teenager. So a couple of years ago when my other son was at that age of reading I found the same bible for him. Well, when I started reading the Spiritual Junkfood book, the Lord whispered in my ear "go get his study bible". I started reading those "Live it now" sections and "Facts" sections and all of the commentaries. At the time I was sick with the flu, but the symtoms I had after reading a few pages was not from my flu. It was from the lies between the pages of the scriptures themselves. I have written a research paper on my discoveries pertaining to this study bible. Anyone that would like more details let me know and I will email you the paper. I was very upset. All of this led up to our getting out of the youth group setting.
I just thank the Lord for exposing all of these things to us last summer. I thank Him for helping me to raise my children and for leading the way. I have an awesome hubby and an awesome Savior.
I hope this is not too sketchy. If you have any questions or comments, feel free. I really appreciate what I have read so far (I look forward to reading more later on this topic). God's blessings to you and yours.