Do You Want Your Sons 'Joining Up' ?
While perusing Coie's This kid |
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March 9th, 2006 - Posted in Uncategorized | | 0 Comments No Responses to ' Do You Want Your Sons 'Joining Up' ? 'Leave a reply |
While perusing Coie's This kid |
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March 9th, 2006 - Posted in Uncategorized | | 0 Comments No Responses to ' Do You Want Your Sons 'Joining Up' ? 'Leave a reply |
on March 9th, 2006 at 1:59 pm
Embellished?
I just don’t buy it. His experience seems to me to have been embellished. dh worked in a MEPS recruiting station; and, while they certainly do everything they can to paint it in a good light, they don’t simply out and out lie. All the services except the Army exceeded their recruitment levels last year (and the Army was just shy). His 99 ASVAB is also HIGHLY doubtful, if he had to guess at any of the questions. My genius-IQ Naval Academy brothers with the best classical homeschool education scored 92 and 96. And they weren’t guessing. So, don’t believe everything you read on a blog.
The Marine Reserves by law can only be deployed for up to two years for any one operation. Which means Bush will need to change the name of the operation if he wants to keep the reservists there. Nobody is there for the eight years he’s writing about. My youngest brother even volunteered to go over again (because his Marine Officer wife was being shipped), and they said he was needed more here.
Being a Marine is not what a man does — it’s who he IS. The Marines have a very high retention rate, and the highest level of education across the troops. I would be very proud if my sons wanted to join the Marines.
So, yes, if my sons wanted to go into any branch of the military, I would be all for it (maybe a little less so if it was Army – Go Navy!). If they were going into any service except the Marines, I’d want them to go as officers, if possible. We are a retired-Navy family, and the benefits (not all tangible) have been myriad. The military is a GREAT place for homeschooling families. My children have had experiences that no others will ever be able to match. I highly recommend it.
on March 9th, 2006 at 2:35 pm
Military…a noble calling of self-sacrifice
We’re a military family and have had a military heritage on both sides. We have enjoyed the experience and job security, traveling abroad and experiencing a myriad of benefits the military has to offer. And we also see the military as an arena for ministry. It is a vocation that requires a degree of denial of self like the knights of old. Being sent on missions far away to serve others. It is noble because one is serving not his pocketbook first, but his country.
Recruiters, however, often don’t show the full picture. Enlisting, in a sense, is the short cut to life away from home and schoolwork, so to many young people from problem homes or with no educational backing for college, it seems an appealing route. But the duties of recruits can be much more menial until they work their way up over time, and the promised “education help” has to be put together in such a fashion that it takes many years to aquire a full blown degree. The military’s needs will always come first over and the enlistee must try to patch together his degree little by little depending on what courses he can glean where he is stationed. Going in after undergraduate school whether via military academy or ROTC or Officer Candidate School automatically puts one in officer status with higher pay, leadership opportunities and a more stable lifestyle. It just depends what a person’s goals are. One enlisting needs to have his/her eyes wide open and speak with many military people/friends for advice. It may truly be a great route to go for that person in their circumstance. But there are no two ways about it…we desperately need godly people in our military. Officer’s Christian Fellowship( http://ocf.gospelcom.net/ )is an organization whose goal it is to see the military transformed for Christ. I would be proud to see my sons serve if they so choose.
on March 9th, 2006 at 2:55 pm
Yes and no, more yes than no
My nephew-in-law is a lifer in the Marines. He has spoken to us about signing our kids up, and that its the best thing that he could have done. He went to Iraq in August for a short deployment. He was back before Christmas.
Do I want my boys in a war? I’m a mother, of course not! I want them to build a house next door and be my neighbors. I do think that we should do our duty and serve our country. My father, grandfathers uncles, one brother — served.
The “this is the right thing to do” part of me says yes.
The “mother” part of me says no.
I’m not thinking about it right now. I think Jesus is coming back VERY SOON. I hope before we need to make this decision. It’s a tough one.
I have 3 sons, and one of them is 15. It is not very far off.
on March 9th, 2006 at 3:06 pm
IF I had a son I'd be proud for him to "join up"!
Three main points I’ll make, since I have a tendency to digress, especially after reading this young man’s blog entry about his Marine recruiting experience.
1) All of the men in my immediate family have served in the military, from short stints to career. My father, uncle, ex-husband and his nephew all served in the Army. My grandfather and step-father served in the Navy. All of my close friends’ husbands and many of the men I meet in my community are in the Army or Air Force. When we conceived our child, my (then-) husband and I agreed that should we have a girl, she would be homeschooled thru high school, and a boy would be homeschooled thru middle school then sent to a military prep academy. While my daughter (almost 5) thinks being a soldier or police officer is one groovy idea, I do admit that I’d rather see her become an excellent wife TO a soldier or police officer. 😉 However, at this age she also wants to be both, and is well aware of that option, via the military (thanks to her father who began his career in law enforcement in the US Army).
2) I agree with the other commenters; this young man’s experience does appear to be embellished or exagerated. How I’d love to have been the fly on the wall. My father did recruiting duty in Corinth, MS, and I took the ASVAB myself as a 4th grader just for kicks. Did okay, considering I had to guess at the algebraic questions. I see this fellow is from Seattle…I wonder which recruiters he met with. I may have to ask around. It’d be fun to do a point/counterpoint on this one.
3) Specifically addressing his comments about Reservists not being eligible for jobs with a multitude of employers: that, I believe, is bunk and pure propaganda. One more reason to reconsider the “truth” of what one finds on the Internet. Many companies are incredibly supportive of their Reservists and are (depending on the industry, of course) specifically looking for folks who list Reserve commitments on their resumes. Any sort of military service is the mark of a certain type of individual, if you, as a manager, believe in certain stereotypes. Yes, the risk of losing a trained employee is there, but activated Reserve members aren’t applying for jobs right now anyway…they are serving. In my opinion, only an individual grasping at straws as reasons for NOT joining the Reserves would even worry about such an issue. Putting it on a job application does not mean you’re not going to get the job. Touting yourself as an “unemployed assistant dictator”, well, now, that would concern me much more if I were an employer who Googled your name prior to your interview!
on March 9th, 2006 at 3:13 pm
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This is all famous stuff. These recruiters have long had a reputation for using all manner of ploys and deceits to recruit gullible young men. They’re especially bad when the military is short-handed, as it is now. I’ve heard more than one story of a guy who signed up without his parent’s knowledge, and they hit the roof when they found out. But since the kid was 18, there was nothing that mommy could do.
I personally never served but at age 18, I’d seriously considered it. My own mom was dead set against it. But since I had no father or siblings and since my mom was crippled, I decided it was more noble to stay close to home and look after mom. Maybe I was right or maybe wrong, but I’ll always regret never serving when I was still young enough and I applaud every young man who goes. They always come back better men for their service.
Sure, no mommies ever want their baby boys to go, and they sure don’t like it when their babies die in the line of duty (take Cindy Sheehan for example). But even though the mommies don’t like it, there must come a day when their little baby boys stand on their own two feet as men and do what they need to do. And the hard cold fact is, some mommies’ baby boys must go because if they don’t, their grandchildren will all be kneeling towards Mecca five times a day. Someone needs to protect America from its enemies so that we can all sleep in our warm little beds and stuff our faces with Fwuffy Puff marshmallows. In the late Roman Empire, the Romans couldn’t raise their own armies, and instead recruited Gothic mercenaries. I think we all know how that story ended up. Our country can go the same way if our young men won’t serve.
As the father of three cute little sons, the last thing I want for them is to grow up only to end up lying face down in the sand in some Moslem desert. It’s gotta be even harder when someone’s son dies in a jeep accident or under “friendly fire.” But if I’m going to reap the benefits of life in the USA, it would be awfully selfish of me to be grudging in my willingness to make a big sacrifice for my country. My $0.02, j
on March 9th, 2006 at 3:56 pm
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My grandfather (and all the males in his generation), my uncle, and my sister were in the military. Based on my sister’s experience I don’t know if I’d really want any of my children in the military. It is so political right now that it’s annoying. When they were being attacked by people in Panama they could not fire on them or even protect themselves because it would have been bad publicity (that’s my guess, although Clinton was president so maybe that had more to do with the decision). There is also a lot of social experimentation going on right now that I don’t want my sons to have to endure. If I wanted my son to room in with girls I’d send him to Berkeley. (And let’s not forget the long standing “rule” of “What goes deployment, stays deployment.” Vegas did not invent that idea.) The final reason is that the government does not take adequate care of it’s people. These soldiers who are dying for us and our safety are paid a pittance and their families at home suffer greatly as a result of that and the deployments that go for far too long.
If my children chose to go into military service I will support their decision but I’m certainly not going to promote it to them.
As for whether he’s lying or not I don’t know. I do know that I am suspicious of some recruiters. They are not all honest. A friend of ours has joined the Navy to get his education. They told him that they do not move people around anymore like they used to. But I have a friend who was in the Navy and her husband is still in and they did move them around. The only reason they’ve stopped recently is because their son had a major birth defect and requires specialized care.
on March 9th, 2006 at 4:10 pm
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I think it's terrible for recruiters to lie to kids/adults/parents just so they can meet their monthly quota's! Maybe he exaggerated a bit, but I think it's very likely that he's telling the truth about what he was told regarding his score… While there are honest recruiters out there, there are definitely many dishonest ones!
I would be very proud for my children to serve in the military. Actually, I think it might do wonders for this country for there to be mandatory military service for 2 yrs immediately after high school. It would be a big wakeup call for kids and their parents. But I guess with parents involved, it could turn into one big mess…there'd probably be a bunch more lawsuits and protests and all kinds of junk.
My dad was enlisted Air Force for over 20 yrs. Honestly, if it wasn't for the school lunch program, we'd have been in a world of hurt. The pay is SO POOR and most of the military is too proud to go on food stamps or any program like that. So if my boys were to go into the military, I would encourage them to get their degree and then go into the military as an officer. Preferably the Air Force since my brother-in-law was treated very poorly by the Marine Reserves when he was deployed a couple of years ago…And in the AF you'll at least you usually have a bed at night! My dad always said AF or Navy if I must…but he was very glad that I turned down my AF commission.
While the mommy in me would always want my kids out of harm's way, I would be so PROUD for them to serve our country in such a noble way!
Marsha
Edited by drewsfamilytx on Mar. 9, 2006 at 2:19 PM
on March 9th, 2006 at 4:42 pm
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I had to get back over here to say that Sgt. York comes to mind.
Ever seen that old movie?
on March 9th, 2006 at 5:01 pm
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Joe and I have talked about this. He served in the Army Reserves. At one time he may have thought of making it a carreer. The Lord had other plans. Joe has mentioned that seeing our sons serving in the military would be an honor. I just want what the Lord wants. If they choose this avenue to serve their country and it's citizens I don't think I would want to stop them.
Maria
Edited by TNMOMTOMANYBLESSINGS on Mar. 9, 2006 at 3:41 PM
on March 9th, 2006 at 7:13 pm
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I will say, that I do completely and utterly support our president and this country and our gov’t. I have followed our presidents, whether I’ve voted for them or not. I will support them and pray for them and continue to be a loyal citizen.
With that said, I will say that I do get frustrated at where we are now. I’m so glad that my son is only 5, b/c I couldn’t imagine if he were old enough to be able to make the decision to join the military. Especially now. Things are so up in the air right now and I’m so concerned. I’m also concerned with the fact that money is being taken from our own country, to be put into the war efforts. That’s where I start getting leary. But again, I’m glad I’m not making the decisions.
My husband and I were dorm parents for a military boarding school in MS a few years ago. I hated it! I truly hated it. It was not the life for us, but it is for some people and I’m glad. It’s a calling and it sounds like this boy wasn’t called to it. I like structure, but they are more structured and strict than I could ever imagine. I continue to pray for military spouses and families. It’s a tough life that only God can give understanding and strength for. God bless those troops…and Praise him that I’m not called to it!
on March 9th, 2006 at 8:19 pm
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I would support my son if he decided to join the military. If one of my daughters did, however…I most likely would not. Call me an anti-feminist if you want. But, if my daughters didn’t want our opinion….I’d support them as well. obviously.
on March 9th, 2006 at 8:30 pm
comment
I loved your comment on anothers site about having fun with your kids! our days seem so drab and I can’t help but think thats all my fault…any suggestions?
on March 9th, 2006 at 11:47 pm
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Both Dear Man and I were in the Navy. 12 years and 6 years respectively. We were both lied to by the recruiter, (same recruiter). The biggest lie I have heard was that if you go in “open” (meaning you have no job title) that you can later study for the job you want. If a job area is full there will be no amount of studying to get you into it. When I had delivered Girl 2 a very young boy came into my military hospital room to check my bleeding with another corpsman. Later he came back to check it again. He looked scared to death! I asked him how old he was and he told me he was 18. I said you don’t look like you want to do this and he said, “I don’t, I wanted to be an airplane mechanic but the recruiter told me to come in open and they stuck me here to learn to be a corpsman.” He looked like he wanted to cry. So, lesson number 1, DON’T GO IN OPEN!!
Second, the military may make your son responsible to duty, it will not encourage him to be responsible as a man. Drinking is rampant, sex, bad language and the degrading talk of women is rampant. While many jobs may have this as an aspect to it you don’t “live” with these people. You can go home and get away from them for a few hours. Living in the barracks is like living in a porn shop.
Third, when Dear Man made the decision to finally get out after 12 years we were bombarded with questions from higher ups and co-workers and their wives; they told us we could never make it without the Navy, just what did we think we were going to do, how would we make a living, and how the Navy really cares about us. When we made it clear that the decision was made Dear Man was getting out, period, we were left to dry in the desert for the last month or so. Only our Christian friends were still speaking to us. It was like trying to leave a cult!
Dear Man and I have never regretted getting out. I could go on, and on, and on. That may cause some to believe that we didn’t enjoy serving our country. Far from, we loved our jobs, we just didn’t love the politics, and the lifestyle we had come to detest.
Abiding in the Vine!
on March 10th, 2006 at 2:43 am
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My DS 13 is extremely interested in the military. He has been in an rotc like program, lives and breathes military weaponry, is in a 4H shooting sports club and is an program for teens through the county sheriff’s dept. It is in him to serve. We have no illusions about the dangers and the conditions. In fact, DH has made him watch some of the more unpleasant scences in military movies….to counter any fantasies DS may have about war being glamourous.
If he were to enlist our of high school or go onto one of the academies, as he has discussed, also, then eventually serve….we support whatever he decides to do. I’m just putting it in God’s hands. I have to trust God has a plan and will lead DS to it.
As far as recruiting techniques…yes, I think there may be some undesirable tactics. But, after working in the corporate world for 16 years, I saw even worse behavior by all levels of management. I’m not condoning lying or misrepresentation…I’m just saying the military may not be doing anything different than what goes on everyday in corproate America. So, we can’t point them out as some sort of bad guy.
I would be extremely proud if my son joined any branch of the military. I literally well up with tears when I see footage of our military men and women on the news…I’m so proud and humbled by them (and their families). Just imagine where we’d be if fanatics who hate America knew we had a weak and vulnerable military. Whether we agree with a president and his policies isn’t the issues so much as the presence, worldwide, of people who hate America and want to see us dead. That isn’t going to stop based on the political party in office.
Ooops, didn’t meant to hog the blog…
on March 10th, 2006 at 7:04 am
I am so glad you brought this up
Because I keep coming back to see what others have said. I’m sorry if this is my THIRD COMMENT! but I loved this: (posted by sagerats)
“Second, the military may make your son responsible to duty, it will not encourage him to be responsible as a man. Drinking is rampant, sex, bad language and the degrading talk of women is rampant. While many jobs may have this as an aspect to it you don’t “live” with these people. You can go home and get away from them for a few hours. Living in the barracks is like living in a porn shop.”
See, this is my concern too. I also agree with what Jay said, and the time may come for our son’s to leave Mama and get out in the world. Columbus, Lincoln, other great men left home pretty early — probably came across “the crude and unbearable” in their travels. But it sounds like in the military, you are immersed in it. I wish it weren’t so, but I’m afraid its probably true.
I’m just wrestling with these things. I don’t have answers. This bothers me.
on March 10th, 2006 at 7:46 am
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Having had 3 members of my family in the military, one of them still active service, I can say that I don’t want any of my children in the military at all. I haven’t read the blog mentioned, so I can’t comment specifically on that, but generally, I think people should have the right to join the military if they wanted to. I would dissuade them, but that is their right.
on March 10th, 2006 at 7:46 am
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Having had 3 members of my family in the military, one of them still active service, I can say that I don’t want any of my children in the military at all. I haven’t read the blog mentioned, so I can’t comment specifically on that, but generally, I think people should have the right to join the military if they wanted to. I would dissuade them, but that is their right.
on March 10th, 2006 at 8:48 am
Yes, if …
As the mother of three boys, there is the possiblity that at least one of them will sign up for the military. I would be so afraid for them, but I would also be very proud. The world is as its always been; I don’t think that the climate now makes it any more dangerous for them — in fact they’re *less* likely to be killed now in Iraq, then if the had lived and served in Germany, Japan or France in WWII, right? Above anything, I wouldn’t want them to base their decision on what *I* want for their lives, but what they feel God wants for their lives.
on March 10th, 2006 at 8:55 am
Contest at DANDELION SEEDS…
Hey… I’m joining the infamous JenIG and having a contest of my own!!!!!!!!!
I’ve posted a new “BOOT CAMP” and contest. Stop by and leave a comment sharing how your school year is going and you’re automatically entered.
Blessings,
Amy
on March 11th, 2006 at 12:35 am
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My father was in the Navy for 23 years. My wonderful husband is in the Marine Corps…and has been for 24 years. I’m sorry to say that I just can’t believe this young gentleman’s experience was entirely truthful. There are good and bad in every job across this country, but for 99.9 % of Marines, it isn’t just a job. Being a Marine IS who you ARE. Honor is a huge thing in the Marine Corps…without it, you have no respect whatsoever.
Would I let my children join the service? You had better believe it. Would my mother’s heart worry about them? Of course I would. But I wouldn’t trade our experiences for any amount of money a “big” paying job could give. We have made wonderful, life long friends, had experiences others can only dream of, and have loved every minute of it…even when times are rough and hubby is gone for months on end. Just my 2 cents….
~Cindy
on March 11th, 2006 at 2:22 am
The Embellishing, Exaggerating, Lying, Un-truthful Fellow Speaks Out
Since my response to all this is a bit too long for a comment I’ve posted it to my blog. Hopefully I won’t be breaking ettiquette by dropping the URL:
http://rabenstranger.blogspot.com/2006/03/in-defense-of-life-universe-and.html#comments
Or if HSB comments allow HTML you can click the link below:
CLICK HERE
on March 11th, 2006 at 6:18 am
No Blanket Answer
To answer a different question first, the ASVAB isn’t rocket science. About 5 years ago, I was considering joining up again (tried to get into an Academy when a wee lad) and I took the ASVAB to get an idea of what sort of training I could get. I got a 96 after having been out of college for 10ish years.
As far as “would I let my son join up”? It depends on the son.
There are some excellent training avenues to go in the military (though, as was mentioned, you’d better get your career put on your enlistment letter) and it is particularly good for boys who require a little discipline in their life.
It isn’t a bad idea, either, for boys who want to “see the world” and have no idea what they want to do in life. A short enlistment can help the most wayfaring boy grow up.
And I think that the military is an honorable profession. People defending our way of life deserve a lot more than we give them.
However, that being said, it isn’t right for every boy. It will toughen any boy up, but for those that are more cerebral than athletic, that experience can be traumatic. And I’d be more concerned about sending a boy who was hyper-responsive to authority than one who tended to disregard authority.
But the short answer is that yes, I’d be proud for my son to join the military, assuming it’s the right fit for him.
on March 11th, 2006 at 7:57 am
Nope, Nu-uh…
Not a chance. My dh was Air Force for 7 years. He planned to become an officer and make it a career until the military decided to make guinia pigs of their military once again. (Don’t forget agent orange and the gulf war syndrome). My dh was kicked out with an “other than honorable” discharge for refusing to take the anthrax vaccine. People in his shop expereinced terrible reactions to this vaccine yet no one (i.e. doctors) ever documented or reported it.
I’m with sagerats. It is almost like a cult and can be a very tight knit either you are for us or against us type mentality. I don’t think that the military is where you want your Godly children unless they are mature enough to look at it as a hostile missions field. It is not like it used to be.